Thursday, October 16, 2008

The Death of Simon and Piggy

Compare and contrast the deaths of Simon and Piggy.


ahra cho said...

The deaths of Simon and Piggy were similar in a ways. They both had unplanned deaths. Nobody wanted to kill them on purpose. Simon died because he suddenly came out of the darkness, so the boys couldn’t see him and killed him. Piggy’s death was also unplanned. Roger didn’t mean to push the big rock to kill Piggy. He only wanted to kill Ralph. They were almost the same but there were differences too.
Their deaths were different in a way. The weapons used were not the same. Simon was killed by bare hands and teeth. The boys were scared and thought Simon was the beastie, so there was no other option than to kill him. Piggy, in the other hand, was killed squished by a rock. Roger pushed the rock to defend Jack by killing Ralph, but it didn’t work out. Simon’s death was because of fear, but Piggy’s was by accident.

Hanggi Lee said...

I disagree with Ahra when she sayst hat both deaths where unplaned deaths. Simon was an unplanned death, but with Piggy it was somewhat planned. Becuase if you remember Roger was trying to hit Piggy he was not throwing rocks by accident he was doing it because he wanted to.
The way Simon and Piggy are taken away from the island is different though. When Simon is killed the waves slowly take him away and the glowing fish add an angelic scene to his death. Compared with Piggy he is killed and a huge wave hits him and sucks him back to the see. I believe that the boys in the island should of perhaps respected more Piggy because he really was important.

Hadar said...

I contradict both Hanggi and Ahra. The death of Simon and Piggy were murders. I believe that all humans are responsible for their actions. However, in some cases, some humans are in a state of delirium or insanity and aren't able to control their actions. But, in this novel, most of the boys choose to be a part of a savage group (Jack's tribe) that obligated them to commit varied crimes. For example, when Roger killed Piggy in defense of his tribe and pure evil. Another example is when all the boys, seduced by the Jack, attacked Simon for no humane reason except for the fact that they were fooled by Jack.

Sergio said...

I agree mostly with what Hanggi had said and hardly with what Hadar had said. Simon's death was unplanned and accidental. Due to this, it can either be charged as homicide or self-defense, because to the boys that killed Simon, Simon was the beast in disguise. It all depends on the viewpoint. I think of it as an unplanned, accidental homicide. However, I do see Hadar's thinking in why it is murder. However, like Hadar said, in a state of delirium, insanity, or simply not in control, people don't have control over themselves. How are people supposed to control themselves in these states? Except the boys weren't in these states. They simply got carried away with their violent dance and followed along. No one had thought of saying no to the majority of the group due to peer pressure, and in this case, exclusion.

Piggy's death, on the other hand, was a bit more planned, like Hanggi said. Although Roger did not hit Piggy with a stone, the shattered conch had blinded Piggy and made him fall off the ledge to his death. He was a respected figure in this book, and his post-death was a bit more violent than Simon's. Simon was simply carried out to sea as if an angel, as compared to Piggy, who was taken away by the violent waves of an angry sea. Both deaths are tragic in a way, but the deaths are very different.

Erika said...

Simon's death was so dramatic. it was dramatic because he wanted to tell the truth of the beast. he was the one that knew that the beast didn't exist, that it was only an illusion, even though he never got the chance to tell. he died knowing that it was not a beast.
Piggy's death came to be somewhat touching, because i fallen for him: i loved the way he was honest with ralph. he was valued. piggy's death wasn't that bad as Simon's. Simon died, when everybody over reacted and felt confused by thinking that he was the beast, and Piggy died, when Roger threw a rock at him. In conclusion their death was not that similar but not that different.

Suz said...

Simon's death was very, very gross. Not that it was discriptive about like his guts spilling out or anything, but the WAY of killing. The phrase "to kill with bare hands" is though of as "without a weapon". Some boys had spears, if I remember correctly, but other than that, they were ripping a boy to death. Biting, grabbing, kicking, and so on. It was disgusting.
Piggy's death was a lot faster, and it was the work of one person, Roger. However this death, as well, was very nasty. The liquid coming out of his head and such, that was pretty gross. However it was not as savage, simply because it was one person and it was with a boulder. It DOES change things.
The deaths were both very disrespectful if you ask me. However i think that it is the way that they're bodies were carried away that had signifigance as well.
Simon was swept away by the tide with fish and things like that, it was a swift, but respectful way to leave.
Piggy's "departure" was less respectful, there was a rush of water and the body was gone. They come and they go. It was like he wasn't at all important. "Oh Piggy doesn't matter he's JUST a fat cluts,"

Armando said...

Simon’s murder was more of an impulsive act ran by instinct and ignorance while Piggy’s was intentional and caused by anger and tension. The boys killed Simon when they were in a sort of trance. They weren’t really thinking in what was going on and they were just dancing and running on emotions. Their superstitious beliefs dominated by fear is what made them attack Simon since they though he was the beast crawling out of the jungle and was coming to attack them.
Piggy on the other hand was killed by Roger, who as Jack, probably already wanted to kill him since long ago. During that time Jack and Ralph were fighting and Piggy along with Sam n’ Eric were alone against the rest of the tribe.

MaRy G. Miller said...

The way I could differentiate the deaths of Piggy and Simon were mainly by the way the ocean carried them away. First of all, Simon´s death was accidental in a way that the kids were crazed during the night and subconsciously on the lookout for the ¨beast¨. When Simon comes running the boys all savagely (together) kill him. The ocean takes him softly and gently, he is lifted slowly and then a school of glow fish surrounds him in light as if it were a funeral. This image came to me as if they were actually carrying him away because the image in my head sees him as an angel.
Piggy’s death is not accidental, Roger decides to not listen to his wisdom and throw a rock over him to end his life. He stumbles and crashes on top the rocks as the strong waves attack and crush over him. The author was trying to portray that they did not respect Piggy as much as they should have by symbolism in his death.

faaBy said...

Both the deaths of Piggy and Simon were unnecessary and symbolized different things.
The death of Simon was unplanned and an accident. It occurred when the children were gathered around the fire and were scraming their chant:
"Kill the beast! Cut his throat! Spill his blood!"(152).
On the other hand, Piggy's death was not an accident. It was what we call murder.

jesica said...

I agree with Armando. The trance he mentions was described by Golding as, "The movement became regular while the chant lost its first superficial excitement and began to beat like a strady pulse...There was the throb and stamp of a single organism" (152). The death of Simon was caused by the exictment of the dance, the fear of the beast and simply because Simon came in the middle of the night and was singled out for not having already taken part in the dance. His was a death all boys were ashamed of though its not really an accidnet. And as Ahra says or Hanggi, he left into sea in a peaceful and angelic way.
On the other hand is Piggy's death, even if he was also a very wise personage the boys didn't respect him or actually even consider him as their equal as they did with Simon. I'm sorry, but Roger didn't accidentally drop that rock, he did it with all the precision of the assassin he has within and none of the boys really felt sorry, only a few. Then again, as someone else mentioned, not only was Piggy's death brutal, but his body dissapeared with a thunderous wave crashing over it and drowning it in the sea.

Won Park said...

There are some differences and similarities among Piggy’s death and Simon’s death. First of all, both were killed mainly by the same person who is Jack. Second, they died in different occasions. Simon had been killed because Jack and his hunters had thought he was the beast and Piggy was killed by the anger Jack had of wanting to destroy Piggy. Another way in which they are different is that both of them were killed with different weapons. Piggy was killed physically and Ralph was killed by weapons. These are some of the ways in which both characters died similarly and differently.

Kalif Shear said...

The deaths of Piggy and Simon were different and similiar at the same time. Simon dies on account of his own foolishness and the group accidently kills him. Piggy's death is also accidental in the sense that Roger did not mean to lean on the lever that released the rock that killed him. Simon was killed by bare hands and this shows that Simon's death is more savage than Piggy's.
The deaths of both these charcters showed the violence that had taken the over the boys in the group and the complete loss of innocence.

Paula F. said...

Simon's and Piggy's death were both portrayed differently when looking at ot an a symbolic way. First, Simon's death was cruel by being killed by the boys, and Piggy being kill by accident with the rock that Roger pushed down the hill intending to kill Ralph. Apart from that they different each other. Simon's death was portrayed like if he was an angle going to heaven. When he died, his body and the parachutist's was dragged to the ocean in a silent gentle way, representing him as being dragged to heaven - because of his innocence. On the other hand, Piggy's death was portrayed as harsh. When reading the book, we come to see that his death was nothing compared to Simon's symbolically. When Piggy died, he was thrown down the mountain and landed on the beach and on top of rocks. This showed that Piggy wasn't as innocent as Simon, but he was also not evil, so his death symbolized a way of staying in between earth and heaven.

Ryan Fuoco said...

I think that they had a lot in common.
First of all, they were both foreshadowed.
Second of all, it was just one thing that you knew was going to happen. These deaths were provoked and there is not much else to it.
Third of all, I would have done the same thing had i been in their position. Simon i wouldn't have killed but Piggy would have gotten on my nerves right from the beginning. I would have killed him first thing along with Ralph.

Alexander Murphy said...

The deaths of Simon And Piggy can be explained as the lack in civilization. Simon represented a pure and angelic being now being taken away leaving a dark nature behind. Piggy represented intelligence. He used wisdom causing the fools to not understand the full potential of his mind. when that was taken away they were left with no sense of right and wrong. So these were planned murders that had to happen to reveal the boys full savagery.